Integrating Two Measures of Quality Practice into Clinical and Practical Legal Education Assessment : Good client interviewing and effective community legal education

This paper will examine, through two case studies (an undergraduate clinical program and a Practical Legal Education (PLE) advice clinic) the scope for indicators developed by Curran to assess the outcomes, effectiveness and quality of legal assistance services1 in Australia to be used in clinical assessment. This article will explore how two particular indicators evaluated as fundamental in that research might be utilised to assess students so as to enhance the quality of their clinical participation.


INTRODUCTION
This paper will examine, through two case studies (an undergraduate clinical program and a Practical Legal Education (PLE) advice clinic) the scope for indicators developed by Curran to assess the outcomes, effectiveness and quality of legal assistance services 1 in Australia to be used in clinical assessment.This article will explore how two particular indicators evaluated as fundamental in that research might be utilised to assess students so as to enhance the quality of their clinical participation.
Clinical Legal Education is seen by its adherents as 'a premier method of learning and teaching.Its intensive, one-on-one or small group nature can allow students to apply legal theory and develop their lawyering skills to solve client legal problems.
Its teaching pedagogy is distinguished by a system of self-critique and supervisory 1 In the National Partnership Agreement between the Commonwealth and State and territory governments legal assistance services are defined as legal services provided by Legal Aid Commissions, community legal centres, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services and Family Violence Prevention Services.Australia has what is termed a mixed model of service delivery in terms of legal aid commissions as they have both inhouse staff doing legal work and private practitioners with grants of aid.
feedback enabling law students to learn how to learn from their experiences'. 2In many senses it is a form of experiential learning through engagement with the practice of law. 3 It aims to contextualise the study of law and draw on student learning in other courses to guide and support them in identifying, developing and applying ethical legal practice skills.But its scope is much wider than simply 'skills', it also aims to develop students' critical understanding of approaches to legal practice, to their understanding of the roles of lawyers in relation to individual clients and social justice issues and to encourage and as a means to validate student aspirations to promote access to justice and equality through the law.
We suggest ways to assess the quality of such engagement by clinical students, focusing on Curran's core quality measures of 'a good client interview' and 'quality community legal education'.The value of utilising these two indicators to assess the quality of student engagement is that they themselves are core to the activities in which students are involved in clinic.

BACKGROUND
Involvement in client interviewing in varying degrees and in the provision of community legal education through direct community engagement such as in street 2 A Evans, A Cody, A Copeland, J Giddings, M Noone, La Trobe University, S Rice, Australian National University Best Practices in Clinical Legal Education, Australian Government Office for Learning and Teaching, September 2012, 4. (http://www.cald.asn.au/assets/lists/Resources/Best_Practices_Australian_Clinical_Legal_Education_Sept_2012.pdf) accessed 29/11/13.The CLE focus is therefore directed to non-legal agencies and youth workers who can be trained to help overcome these barriers. 22The PLE site is a course which operates in the form of a Legal Advice Clinic as part of the ACT Legal Aid Office's 'advice and minor assistance' activities.The LAC Program is intended to expose students to social justice issues through direct contact with disadvantaged clients and to provide students with "hands on" legal experience, principally through interviewing and interview follow-up, in the period just before they are admitted as practitioners.
The authors maintain that lessons from the research on measuring quality legal services and outcomes can be adapted to enable clinical and PLE students in these settings to provide an enhanced experience of the law in practice. 23 teaching in practice environments that never loses sight of 'the requirement that no client be subjected to incompetent representation'. 26As a further protection clinical and PLE students are subject to Legal Aid ACT's Practice Standards.Students are required to adhere to these standards.The culture instilled is around their responsibility as lawyers and the need to adhere to standard in order to ensure accurate and relevant advice to real clients.

Using the first measure of quality -Fostering Students in the Conduct of a 'Good Client Interview' A good client interview
Work undertaken in Scotland 27 highlights the importance of focusing students on the critical nature of their role as lawyers in client interviews and the importance of their interaction with clients.The concern of the authors is that monitoring progress in this area should not simply be left to student's perceptions.Self-reflection though important is not sufficient.
Some external method of gaining feedback on how effective the interaction has been from the client's point of view can add an important perspective.We suggest a protocol of brief questioning of clients post-interview as to their level of satisfaction with the interaction.In some clinics and PLE settings a supervisor may also sit in on an interview and be in a position to provide post-interview feedback.In Curran's research on behalf of Legal Aid ACT broad methods of obtaining feedback were utilised, including focus groups and stakeholder interviews, interviews with legal aid staff, interviews with clients and others involved in criminal, family or civil disputes.Participants were asked to define outcomes that were both "positive" and "within your control to achieve".The results suggest that a positive outcome was seen more in terms of the processes that the lawyer, staff and client go through rather than simply focusing on the advice given or the end result of a case.
The data revealed certain "positive" outcomes seen as critical; most importantly for our purposes these include an effective client interview.In practice terms, an initial interview can impact on later follow-up interviews or contacts, rapport, trust, confidence, as well as the conduct of any litigation or negotiations that may follow.
We suggest clinical and PLE students ought to be taught and assessed on the conduct of an effective interview given so much turns on it in legal practice.For clinical students, the primary importance is the insights examining this interaction can provide in terms of seeing the law in action.For PLE students, its value is more pressing in terms of preparing them as effective entry level lawyers.
Another "positive" aspect in terms of a good outcome identified in the Curran research is the importance that clients placed on the level of non-legal support they were provided with.For clients with a mental illness, with drug or alcohol addiction, who are homeless or live chaotic lives, practical support in terms of personal management was seen as critical.For such clients, a positive outcome might well be that they attend their Legal Aid appointment or advises legal aid staff of a new mobile phone number or address.This support work is seen as critical and highlights the multifarious roles a lawyer needs to take in order to deliver legal advice.Evans and colleagues argue that the skills training provided to clinical students should incorporate a client focussed approach which would include inculcating such an awareness of the subjective circumstances of clients and the specific access to justice barriers (e.g.cultural barriers and communication strategies) they face. 28 agree that students in clinical and PLE programs need to be taught such a client focussed approach to practice.

Assessing a Good Client Interview
If as the Curran research suggests, a legal interview is pivotal in providing quality underline the importance of a shared understanding of roles and responsibilities, managing expectations, providing clear communication, focusing on problem solving, maintaining ethical values and responsibilities and dealing sympathetically with clients' needs, especially those with special needs.They discuss the underlining need for co-operation and trust between lawyer and client, for real client participation, for the lawyer to probe deeply but respectfully, so as to reassure clients that they are heard and understood and to obtain accurate instructions and provide accurate advice.
Similarly, there is empirical research as to the presence of such qualities in the client interviews conducted by practising lawyers.Moorhead and Robinson31 conducted interviews with lawyers and clients after an initial consultation.Follow-up interviews were then conducted six months later as the lawyer-client relationship developed.In the worst cases they found that, even after six months, the lawyer had still not identified the issue for which the clients said they were seeking assistance.
The study remarked on lawyers' poor listening skills, their lack of fact checking and their lack of understanding regarding client needs.Kreiger has highlighted in his own empirical work the potential of clinic to make students 'more adept at exploring client interests and determining next steps to take in a case' and in imparting the ability to identify legal rules applicable to a problem. 32his research provides the groundwork for the specific skills relevant to the conduct of a good client interview.Curran's work sought to develop a set of indicators as to whether a good legal interview has occurred.These are now being used with adaptations to suit Consumer Action Law Centre in the evaluation of its Advice Line and in an evaluation of a Medico-Legal Alliance in the rural Bendigo region of Victoria, in south eastern Australia.It is suggested that the indicators can also be utilised in assessing students in clinical and PLE programs.A short form interview of clinical clients post-interview might include the following set of questions: • Did the interviewing student lawyer listen as you explained your situation?
• Did the student lawyer make you feel safe, comfortable and respected during the interview?
• Did the student lawyer ask questions that extracted all you think they needed to know and did they check with you to see they had understood what you told them?
• Did the student lawyer give you an opportunity to ask questions or clarify all you wanted to know?
• Did the student lawyer give you an opportunity to ask questions or clarify all you wanted to know?
• Many of the questions intersect with those used by Barton and colleagues 34 as basis for constructive feedback to students on the effectiveness of their simulated interviewing in PLE programs.

Case Study of client interviewing: The Legal Advice Clinic-PLE students
The Legal Aid Clinic Program (LAC) provides one option for students to satisfy the legal placement experience requirements of their PLE study.LAC is conducted at the ACT Legal Aid Office in Canberra and the program is integrated into Legal Aid's "advice and minor assistance" activities.The LAC Program is intended to expose students to social justice issues through direct contact with Legal Aid clients and to provide students with "hands on" legal experience, principally through interviewing and interview follow-up, just before they are admitted as practitioners.LAC is a clinical program running since 1996 and has been the subject of earlier research as an example of the delivery of minor assistance follow up work. 35ient interviews follow a standard methodology designed to expose students to live client contact whilst recognising that they are unlikely to have relevant legal content knowledge and are not permitted to give legal advice.Each student meets the client and conducts a "pre-interview" where their task essentially is to determine the 34 Above note 27, 33-50.Program and it may be that this provides supervisors with an opportunity to incorporate some of the questions suggested above into their feedback to students.
Additionally, there is scope to select appropriate questions from those suggested above to ask the client upon exiting the interview.This would provide additional feedback for the student as to whether the client saw the interview as effective.In addition students could be required to submit a short (250 words) reflection on how well a chosen interview went addressing this assessment regime and recording any feedback from clients.This could be done as part of an existing reflective journal or part of a case study component of the course.
36 These 'indicators of good practice' are adapted from the learning outcomes devised and implemented by our colleague Judy Harrison in the Clinical Youth Law Program course over many years.

Using the second measure of quality -Fostering Students in the Conduct of 'Effective Community Legal Education session' Effective Community Legal Education
Community legal education (CLE) is seen as 'the provision of information and education to members of the community, on an individual or group basis, concerning the law and legal processes, and the place of these in the structure of society.The community may be defined geographically or by issue'. 37Our view is that community legal education is critical in a 'participatory democracy'.If people are to participate effectively in a democracy they need to have a fundamental understanding of how legislation passed by parliaments and administered by government departments affects their lives.Clinical students often engage in the provision of community legal education by delivering training or information sessions to sections of the community.But assessment of the quality of their involvement is mostly subjective and unstructured.In research examining CLE 38 Curran critiqued lecture style approaches since feedback from participants revealed this was ineffective.Approaches that instead respond to the specific needs and experiences of the target audience were seen as much more effective.Such approaches have also been identified as effective in adult learning.literacy and numeracy levels, and anxiety and self-esteem considerations.The timing of the education is also crucial with people are more likely to be receptive to just-intime education. 41For students conducting community legal education it is therefore essential that it be highlighted that their role is to communicate effectively and appreciate the needs and capacities of the group.

Assessing Effective Community Legal Education
Drawing on the indicators of effective CLE developed in Curran's research we suggest a number of measures that may be effective for assessing community education provided by clinical students.We suggest surveying participants either orally (especially for participants with low literacy or poor written skills) or with a short written survey administered at the end of the session.Again a short form interview of CLE participants might include the participants responding to statements (in terms of 'strongly agree, agree, disagree and strongly disagree') such as: • The legal education session was clear and easy to understand • The legal education session was practical and appropriate so as to assist my understanding of the topic.• The legal education used practical scenarios and case studies which assisted me in gaining a picture of how the law works and the different contexts.
• The session met my expectations.
• The information was relevant, useful and helpful.
• As a result of this session/s I am more informed about how the law operates in this area and how I fit in.
• There were elements of the presentation that need improvement.
• Armed with the information from this session, I feel more confident to take steps involving my legal rights. 42rticipant feedback from such surveys can assist students in reflecting on how well the information they impart is received and encourage their continuing reflection and development as to how adept they are at communicating legal concepts to a non-legal audience.Supervisor observation using the statements can also provide a useful feedback tool.It might be useful for students to aggregate the data from surveys for pre4sentation to their supervisor.This would engage students in a process whereby they appreciate the tenor of responses and any recurrent themes that emerge.The students could usefully summarise the findings and present them in a debrief session with fellow students.There is a weekly reflective and instruction session each Thursday morning.
The clinic identifies target groups for CLE as 'primary' (young people 12-25) and 'secondary' (e.g.youth workers, teachers, agencies).The students participate in CLE activities that occur by way of invitation (e.g. to schools, youth groups) for interactive sessions about the legal aspects of particular activities (like rave parties, sexting) or through requests from particular groups (young people from North Africa, young people on remand) to provide tailored sessions.They are also 43 Recent sessions have discussed drug and alcohol; police powers and security guards; employment and apprenticeship; internet and mobile phone use including cyber-bullying and sexting; car accidents, and buying and selling goods (mobile phones etc.).
proactive in making overtures to youth agencies to have law students come and deliver sessions to workers about how to identify legal aspects of young people's problems and how and where to refer them to for assistance.All of this occurs under supervision of a staff lawyer or the course coordinator.The two measures we have sought to extrapolate from the sphere of legal assistance service evaluation provide fertile methods that might be considered and adapted to clinical or PLE programs both in terms of assessment and program design.By connecting students early to notions of quality and effectiveness, may also have the benefit of driving up the quality of legal practice in the longer term.
legal service and leading to a successful outcome then, how might the measuring of a quality legal interview translate when students are delivering legal assistance under supervision?There is a well-developed literature on the elements that constitute an effective legal interview.Wolski, Field and Bahrij 29 examine the nature and processes of participatory, client-focussed interviewing and Chay and Smith 30 further unpack the staged process for a good interview.Wolski and colleagues 28 Above note 2, 15. 29 B Wolski, D Field and J Bahrij 'Legal Skills: A Practical Guide for Students', (Thompson and Legal Regulatory, 2006) Chapter 2 59-116.30A Chay and J Smith, 'Legal Interviewing in Practice', (Law Book Co. , North Ryde, 1996).

35
Harrison, J, Holmes, V, Rowe, M, Foley, T, Sutherland, P 'Capacity of a Clinical Program to provide 'Minor Assistance' within the Structure of a Legal Aid Commission, paper presented to the 3rd International Journal of Clinical Legal Education/8th Aust.Clinical Legal Education Conference, Melbourne, 13-15 July 2005 nature of the legal problem presented by the client.The pre-interview is primarily intended allow the student to test their interview in a totally open, live clientsituation.The solicitor/instructor then enters the interview room, is briefed by the student as to the client's 'legal problem' in the client's presence and then continues the interview (which may or may not include legal advice) in the presence of the student.The student may be called upon in the interview to comment or assist and will be required to undertake, under supervision, any follow-up work from the interview.The student prepares a file note of the interview for Legal Aid records.Feedback to students on their performance is an important part of the LAC Student involvement in the CLE program takes a number of forms:1.Students are closely involved in the preparation and revision of materials for outreach activities including tailoring materials and resources -as part of both onsite activities and as assessment items (current popular subjects include group housing, sexting, police and security personnel powers) 2. Students provide primary contact with young people in the delivery of CLE to school groups, youth groups, youth detention centre open day, youth expos, visits to drop in centres, and secondary contact through youth agencies, visits to youth worker agencies, school teachers and drop in centre workers.3.Students debriefing in feedback session with the course coordinator, YLC staffand fellow clinical students about the response and effectiveness of CLE sessions as a learning process, specifically in terms of empowerment and engagement using a simple template questioning rubric of 'What worked?What could be done better?How could you be better prepared/equipped?What feedback did you get?' recording any feedback from participants.This too be done as part of an existing reflective journal or part of a case study component of the course.CONCLUSIONThe experiential learning opportunities in clinic or PLE placements are immense.Finding new ways to ensure students reflect on the quality of their participation can help them development professionally.By broadening the feedback students receive, in their learning, to those whom they seek to advise/instruct can enable them to appreciate that the work that they do as student lawyers directly affects clients and the community.Conducting an interview and participating in an education session are very different activities but both highlight twin professional responsibilities -addressing the need for legal information and advice within a warm human exchange.Students participating in interviews (both directly in pre-interviews and collaboratively with a lawyer) are directly engaged in meeting and addressing human problems with legal aspects.Students involved in the empowering potential of CLE meet a crucial role in the administration of justice.Students can, we argue, in a safe and guided context, emerge more mindful of the need to strive to deliver quality service, and reflect on what they do and how well it is received.Even though they are novices, notions of quality highlight their understanding of the effectiveness of law in operation.We suggest that careful debriefs with students about this feedback can fertile opportunities for deepened discussion on the law and lawyers.
3 'Clinical Legal Education Guide, Your Guide to Clinical Legal Education Courses Offered by Australian Universities in 2011 and 2013', University of New South Wales.(http://www.klc.unsw.edu.au/sites/klc.unsw.edu.au/files/doc/eBulletins/CLE_GUIDE_2011_12.pdf)accessed 2/12/13.lawprograms is now common in Australia, the United States 4 and South Africa 5 and is expanding into many other countries. 6It is for this reason that ensuring quality in client interviewing conducted by students and community legal education should be part of student assessment.In addition in Australia, Practical Legal Education (PLE) courses (like the Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice (GDLP) program in which the authors also teach) prepare graduates of law for admission to practice with a more distinct focus on practiceready skills.Such programs seek to ensure that entry level lawyers reach required levels of competency as prescribed by the Competency Standards for Entry Level Professional Education and Training Stage 1 (PEAT 1). 10 The same model is followed in New Zealand and other Southern Hemisphere countries. 11These competency-based programs all have the distinctive mission to equip trainees with practice-ready skills and knowledge and so are fundamentally different in kind and nature from clinical programs.In seeking to find measures to gauge the quality of student engagement in such clinical and PLE programs we draw upon recent research by Curran examining what 8In other jurisdictions such as the United Kingdom, there is a similar requirement for law graduates seeking admission to complete the Legal Practice Course which lasts one year followed by a two-year apprenticeship, during which the trainee solicitor has to complete a Professional Skills Course.9Scotlandtakes a similar form of a Diploma in Legal Practice (one year), and completion of a two-year apprenticeship together with the Professional Competence Course in accordance with the Law Society of Scotland's leads to 'effective outcomes' and 'quality legal service' in the context of public legal services (legal aid, community legal centres, family violence services and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander services).From 2011 -2013, Curran conducted research into what constitutes a 'successful outcome' 12 and quality legal aid services and howto measure these on behalf of Legal Aid ACT 13 , the Commonwealth Government's Attorney General's Department 14 and Consumer Action Law Centre with the 10 (http://www.lawscot.org.uk/media/561669/peat%201%20guidelines.pdf)accessed 2/12/13. 11See Fiji (http://www.unifiji.ac.fj/undergraduate-study/graduate-diploma-in-legal-practice-2/) accessed 2/12/13 and New Zealand ( http://www.lawsociety.org.nz/for-lawyers/joining-the-legal-profession/ The report including the research methodology, survey data (separately and full version also on the web site) and findings are on LAACT's website for agencies to examine and adapt. 39C Egle, 'A Guide to Facilitating Adult Learning' Rural Health Education Foundation and Department of Health and Aging, 2009, http://www.rhef.com.au/wp-content/uploads/a_guide_to_facilitating_adult_learning.pdf

of community legal education: The Clinical Youth Law Program- clinical students
Youth Law Centre ACT (YLC) is a free legal service for young people between 12-25 years of age.It is provided through collaboration between the ACT Legal Aid and the ANU College of Law.A drop-in centre operates each weekday providing legal advice and referral service for young people.Clinical students work in the YLC one day a week in a paralegal role.As part of their involvement students conduct preinterviews, brief solicitors, assist during interviews and complete follow up work on client files.The centre also undertakes extensive CLE, running outreach programs on a regular basis at high schools, colleges and with youth organisations.These are interactive programs designed to promote young people's knowledge of their legal rights and responsibilities and raises awareness of the services the YLC offers.43 42These questions have been adapted to suit a community education context but are based on questions from Curran, above note 13 and from further work undertaken by Curran for the Consumer Action Law Centre in late 2013 and the Advocacy and Rights Centre, January 2014.Case Study